Pastor Opposes MGTOW. MGTOW Embraces Pastor.

In light of the last two posts, I thought I’d focus on something encouraging, and something that was in my “to be posted” list fits right into the current trend of discussion. While this guy opposes MGTOW, it elicits an interesting response compared to the others within and without the manosphere.

Notice something different and unique about him compared to the average way men are dealt with in the church? He’s showing respect towards the men in his audience as human beings and actually shows he is listening. He hits most all (if not all) points I hit back here regarding why women aren’t finding marriage. While I can find much disagreement with him on this and other matters, I can respect him and how he deals with men regarding this issue. He sees men not as chattel to be cudgeled into submission, but men with choices before God. More importantly, he actually acknowledges the reality on the ground men are facing with respect to women and quite obviously sees men as equal participants on the walk with God. He actually acknowledges women as just as sinful as men and actually rebukes women. He doesn’t shout down at men, doesn’t seek to break men at every turn. He actually treats the men in his audience as men and not as chattel that won’t know their roles and shut their mouths. He doesn’t accept the base tenets of feminist doctrine.

(2013-10-23) feminist-theory

Let’s hear the response he got:

Funny how that works, huh?

When The Reformers Are Feminist, Abandon All Hope

In a typical feminist SJW tactic, rather than directly respond to what was written previously, David Murrow has posted this link to his facebook and done the usual “he’s just a woman-hater” response. A screen shot (to preserve the evidence) and response below:


He seems mad because I don’t trash women on my blog. The lack of men in church isn’t a man problem or a women problem or a pastor problem. It’s a system problem.

I’m “mad” because you are trashing men on your blog and making the lack of marriage in the church into a man problem. Beyond that it is a system problem and you are contributing to the problem. The problem is the “system problem” is quite routinely the “man problem”. In other words:

It would all just work right if men would just know their role and play along.

David, be the solution, don’t be the problem. I link to you on the side because in a lot of respects you do address problems within the church. The sole reason I bothered to respond at all, is because you are the problem in that post and not the solution.

As for the rest, note all the typical feminist shaming tactics, rather than directly addressing any of the points involved. Gentlemen, you have just seen what David Murrow truly thinks of you. Rather than reform the system problem, which is routinely defined synonymously with “the man problem” (which I *thought* Murrow understood after reading his book), he would rather simply sucker men into accepting the system as it is.

Why do men hate going to church? Because men don’t want to be unjustly vilified as the problem of everything wrong in the church and the world. You don’t need a whole book to answer that.  Place the blame where it properly lies.

A Church For Men? Is It Really?

On a blog written by David Murrow, a man who wrote “Why Men Hate Going To Church”, I found an interesting post. For one who I would presume should know better, I found a post that constitutes a typical man-up rant.

In “Why Christian Men Are Playing The Field”, he presents the shop-worn arguments that we’ve all become familiar with:

Men are the ones cutting out on seeking marriage.

While he uses much less harsh language than the typical man-up rant, it still illustrates a false perspective colored by feminism inherent to the church: It could never be what everybody else is doing. Murrow begins by showing us the female-centric nature of this post:

Ask any young woman what the Christian dating scene is like these days.

So why are all the single Christian ladies having trouble finding single Christian guys for companionship and romance?

Before quoting Mark Regenerus and Gina Dalfonzo, he gives us the answer:

Christian men can play the field – and they know it. The numbers are in their favor.

In other words, Murrow claims that MEN are the ones delaying marriage because they can “play the field”, and hence men are the problem! Murrow goes on to explain:

Therefore, many Christian guys are postponing marriage into their 30s, confident they’ll be able to snag a compatible, attractive wife when they’re ready to settle down.

Then the misandry of this post really comes out, in going back to one of his general premises:

So what caused this imbalance? Why is there such a shortage of godly young men?

Simple. We screened them out of church as boys.

Replying to such a post seems incumbent, as such a post is emblematic of what David Murrow claims to be out against in his book and much of the rest of his blog. It offers a female-centric view of the issue and assumes the problem is wholly men. Such things as this post is a major contributor to driving men out of the church, especially when voiced in the chorus of misandrist pastors that exist in the churches such as Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, and Albert Mohler. Such rants from those figures and others are so ubiquitous that they have earned a meme title in a lot of circles: “Man up and marry those sluts”. Men definitely do not have a desire to show up to a church service and be blamed incessantly for not measuring up to a masculinity that demands he be shamed and blamed at every opportunity.

In fact, if one wants to observe the real causes of this, they need to get away from secular and feminist sources (like was quoted in this post), and start talking to men. The problems are readily known and dealt with in legion on this blog and in other places.

1. Poor character of women. It may be shocking that “those sluts” gets used, but it is emblematic of what is generally facing men when it comes to dealing with the women in the church. Christian women are arrogant, prideful, and sinful Jezebels, and yet the churches have nothing to say or do about it – after all they raised these women this way. Men are looking at these women and just deciding it isn’t worth it – the single and never going to marry ever crowd (MGTOW). This group is only increasing in size each year.

2. Unrealistic expectations. Given the prideful arrogance, coupled with the equation of Jesus as husband with the expectation of the husband being her perfect Personal Jesus, women go into things with a 642 point list of what they expect out of men. They expect the perfect combination of Brad Pitt’s body, George Clooney’s charm, Warren Buffett’s money, Billy Graham’s spirituality, and Chris Tomlin’s musical ability. Yet no one corrects them.

3. Lack of commitment by women. It could be argued more forthrightly that women are the ones delaying marriage. This is encouraged by the “True Love Waits” movement, and other like movements such as the courtship movement. Add to that the influence of modern feminism, and a woman must never seek marriage until she’s attained the Feminist Merit Badges. With her parent’s support, she must attain college, a career, travel, missionary or volunteer work, and ride the Carousel before she ever considers marriage. When the time comes that she is ready (in her 30’s, funny huh?), all the “good men” are either married or have given up. The “true love waits” message is for us men, not the women. Wait until she gets done with her adventures and then be ready and waiting for her. When this doesn’t work out they complain that the “good men” just aren’t there waiting at their beck and call. Perish the thought!

4. Unsupportive church environment. The general environment of the churches is anti-marriage formation. Misandrist man-up rants have been dealt with, already. Murrow himself points out in his book the issues of segregation and other factors that keep men apart from women. Then, the general way that mating is treated by others in the churches (gossip), just push men away from it.

5. Poor testimony of marriage. Much of this has to do with Marriage 2.0 and its nature, but also has to do with the marriages around them and the examples that are set. The single men are watching to see what marriage is and what it represents. They see it for what it is and have enough self-interest to not go through with it.

In conclusion, while it’s expected for man-up rants to come from most of the church and secular crowd, I find it disappointing to read a “blame the men” style post from David Murrow, who I would think would know better and would take steps to research things a lot better than what is demonstrated in that post. Unfortunately, his post is a good example of what drives men out of the church. Given his platform, he could call for things that would deal with these problems, but unfortunately he missed that opportunity with this post.

My Life Is Far From Perfect

I definitely try to not make this blog about me. In fact, I’ve taken great pains to not make things about me, but in trying to turn out content that reflects well on the goals I undertook by starting this blog. That gets more and more difficult for numerous reasons, many of those inherent to blogging. So for this post, I’m going to try to share a bit, but try to find a way to keep it on point as a lesson. And hopefully too, it won’t be so much that I end up outing myself.

For instance, how do you keep finding good interesting content to you to keep spending the research and preparation time on posts? Oddly enough, I have plenty of things I could be writing about after nearly four years, but a lot of those go away with blogs shutting down (response posts), and just general disinterest and forget of my notes from time. A lot of it is time, but personal motivation and energy, along with reading a lot of disappointing things. Then there’s always the usual issue of repetition and whether it’s worth rehashing things. Of course, after 322 posts, it’s hard to not rehash something. It’s hard to even keep things cataloged after 322 posts (especially Scriptures used, the search doesn’t work too well for that) – it’s weird when you hit that first moment that you realize that you have to research your own stuff to see whether you’ve worked on something in the past.

It’s something that’s been consistent for almost the entire history of this blog, but some months are better than others. There’s one thing I’ve said until lately is that at least I’ve been consistent in trying to get something out at least once a month, until recently. A lot of that is procrastination (it seems I always have a hard time starting these when it comes to actually *writing* them), but a lot of that is stress. Most of that stress is the fall-out from my mother passing, and all the uncertainty that’s surrounded it, along with a lot of other problems that have cropped up. Mental exhaustion takes a toll. Get a post out, then it seems while only one or two days pass, one day turns into four turns into fourteen turns into forty-eight.

So if anyone was looking for a good (yet probably unsatisfying) answer to why I don’t post too frequently anymore, there’s your answer. I’m keeping my head down, trying to take care of more immediate concerns of life, having the faith that it’ll all end soon and I can get back to bigger and better things. Hopefully this blog. Maybe the other blog that I reserved and planned out two years ago but haven’t gotten around to starting up yet. Maybe even some book-like texts off of some things on the blog and other things I have done in the past that I haven’t been posted (mainly Bible studies), and even more impactful things in service of the Kingdom. Hopefully things that can be even greater, with the hope that I’ve been trustworthy before the one true Lord in writing what I’ve needed to write here.

To that end as a lesson, one of the things I consistently get perturbed about is the pretense of perfection that I see in those “Christians” around me. One of the first lessons I had in coming to the Lord is exactly that. If I were perfect, then I don’t need Christ. Scripture tells us no one is perfect. I definitely don’t claim that I’m perfect by any measure, but I see those claims in those around me every time I set foot in a “Christian” environment. The perfect masks that people put on just never get stripped away.

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. (James 1:2-4)

“I’ve accepted Christ, I’m perfect. I’m living the perfect life.” they say. “I am without sin.” they even say in my presence. Unfortunately, the message of counting the costs, and especially the costs of following Christ gets lost in the whole dynamic of the Personal Jesus. The perfect romance where everything feels good, everything works out, and everything is good. And if it’s less than that, it’s all about your lack of faith. I’ve been kicked out of places for dare admitting my life is not perfection.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to get a rude awakening as to what Scripture actually says. All it would take is looking inwards at themselves to see the truth (very true of all women but most men) and be convicted of their pride and arrogance. It’s not about a completely done work, it’s about faith in a work that is to be done. Sadly, you really can’t tell any of them anything – no one really can ever. If the trials in life themselves, if the misfortunes of this life (John 9:1-3), if things not going right won’t teach them, the persecutions to come definitely will as the time is soon coming where the wheat will be separated from the chaff of those that claim Christ. When the one true God finally proves the Churchian god – the god of the building, the god of the ritual, the god of the offering plate, the god of the program, the god of the pulpit to be false, many will definitely fall away. But He will always leave a remnant. He will have reserved those who have not bent their knee to those things.

Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. (2 Corinthians 11:23-27)

Don’t ever be fooled, it never was and never will be about laying up treasures on this earth (Matthew 6:19-21) or having “your best life now” – in fact we’re promised the exact opposite. Resurrection to new life requires you to die first, in the promise of a new country and better country (Hebrews 11:13-16). That’s what the true follower of Christ is called to in faith. As for all things, I persevere in the hope of something better. If not this life, that’s fine. The best in this life pales to the next.

Where are you headed?