Letter To A Young Churchian Woman

(I have edited the post to remove all the links to the blog in question. See the comments for the reason.)

Dear Michelle,

I recently came across your blog, and read it with great interest. As a 20 year old single Christian man (with 19 years of experience), I’ve encountered numerous women on my walk and have learned lots of things from them about relationships and about life.

I’ve noticed many women want to wait and go after career and ministry, with the expectation that husband, marriage, and family would be waiting for them when they are done. The fact that you are giving thought to marriage as a 20 year old woman is a credit to you. If you are earnestly serious at finding a good, not perfect Christian man, you are ahead of many other women. They wait until they establish careers, party, or do a great deal of ministry before the thought of seeking a husband approaches their minds. They end up bitter and angry at the world and everyone in it because they’ve been patiently waiting until they have 19 years of experience at being 20.

I’ve noticed in a lot of women, as I’ve noticed in you, the tendency of women to wait and believe the perfect special man that God has set aside for them will appear. They have a huge list and expect God to meet them all. I know you follow The Personal Jesus from reading your other blog and reading this current one. Michelle, if you believe that the Lord serves women (and men) in their own desires instead of acts in His sovereign will by working all things together for good for those that are called of God, you will find a sea of emptiness and will be single at 40.

If God means you to marry, He will provide a suitable husband, not a perfect husband. Remember the story of the man in the flood? The man was sent three boats and a helicopter to be saved from drowning, yet refused all by saying he had faith in God that He would grant a miracle. The punchline goes that he had no reason to complain because God sent the three boats and a helicopter. The perfect in our feeble minds is the enemy of the sufficient, needful and perfect will of God. I might wish of my own will to live in a mansion, but should I not live in a house at all if the mansion is my desire? Should I not accept a simple house or apartment if it is needful and given to me by God’s grace? You may have this conception in your mind of the perfect mate, but God may have a totally different idea. Don’t reject “good enough” in the sight of God for the absolute perfect, which doesn’t exist, in the will of man. Grace requires that we settle for less than perfect, because God settled for us (men and women) while we were still enemies.

While your 33 point requirements list for a future husband is not as long as some, why do you think God should satisfy your every desire? We are wicked and wretched in His sight. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It’s even by grace that we have the option of Christ Jesus. It’s by grace that we have anything by His hand, even a spouse if it is His will. We deserve only one thing by His hand. We should not think that God owes us anything.

On that note, I’ve noticed the tendency in a lot of “Christian” women in my 19 years experience as a 20 year old to not recognize the grace that God has given them before others, especially the men that would be their suitors. There are no perfect men. There are no perfect women. You are not perfect, Michelle, and neither am I. Maybe you don’t realize this well, as I didn’t. Life is hard. Imperfect people fall short. They hurt those around them that they love. They fail to do the things they should be doing and fail when they actually do what they should be doing. We are failures, but God gives us grace through His love for the faults, as He does through the blood of Christ Jesus when we come to Him in repentance for our faults before Him.

Michelle, please remember this when you remember the “mistakes” you have made by “settling for the wrong guys for the wrong reasons”. You might have failed God in some form of your standards, but you have failed God again in throwing aside His witness of grace and love in your life by being too exacting. This is only one of the messages you are sending men. Remember as I wrote above, I’ve encountered numerous women. In looking at your list along with this observation of your mistakes, the message is sent that no man is good enough to be your husband who walks this earth. The perfect man who does not get grace from you for his faults, must walk with a selfish, arrogant, evangelical entitlement princess who must be worshiped as the righteous goddess that she is, not to mention that her obvious faults must never be mentioned. Michelle, most guys will interpret what you wrote to mean “fornication”, in case you were not aware.

This may not be the young woman that you really are, Michelle, but this is how you are presenting yourself to men. You wonder if your Prince Charming might have requirements for you too. Not many women who are serious about marriage and relationships would accept a man with such a list in hand. You most certainly wouldn’t when push comes to shove. Most men wouldn’t accept your list either and would run the other way. This is not selfishness, this is “not settling for the wrong girl for the wrong reason”, namely because of her selfishness.

Have you ever given thought on what you are willing to offer a man who would be your husband? After all, God’s love is about selfless giving, not selfish getting. One of the things I’ve found in my life that is that my requirements list for women has grown very short over time. It’s okay to have one, but not such a long one that you won’t accept anything from the Lord’s hand. But I’ve found the list to shorten as I’ve learned more about my faults and the Lord’s grace that He has extended to me in my life.

In conclusion, I know I’m a callous evil man who just violated numbers 5, 7, 14, 16, 20, 21, and 31 on your list of poorly thought contradictory items with the intention of 1, 17, and peripherally 3. I know you are like other women I’ve encountered and thinking “how dare that insolent obstreperous pig for writing those things!” Be mindful of what the Scripture actually says about the nature of rebukes and what the wise do with them. I hope you listen and consider what has been written.

With prayer and Christian love,

62 thoughts on “Letter To A Young Churchian Woman”

  1. I left Michelle an exhaustive list of my requirements. It will be interesting to see whether it makes it out of moderation. If not, here it is:
    Dearest Michelle,
    My list:
    1. Sex on my time and my terms, not yours. You don’t have to want it or feel like it, but you must be willing. You get one week off during the month. It’s really all you have to offer, and I’ll take it, but I’ll take it all. Be ready for me. No man worthy of you will ask any more of you, nor any less.


  2. Oh. Just, Oh.

    Michelle if you read ballistas post and these comments, I implore you to truly evaluate your intentions based on what he said.

    There is no man who can meet that list. Jesus is that list and so much more yet he is roundly rejected by many/most. The point is even if you found a man who you THINK fits those requirements, you will end up rejecting him. Because there is no challenge.

    I struggled to find the worst one, but I settled on “put my feelings first”. You need to think through that and test it against scripture. Its an epic fail. It collides with one of your other requirements, that he be the spiritual leader for you. these two things cannot coexist. Feelings are fickle and unreliable and not the way a Godly man leads. Its easy to try to follow the whims of a wife’s feelings because it feels like going along to get along. Its much harder to do the right thing when she FEELS differently. Your feelings will actually rightly be relegated to a lower priority more often than not. And that is good.

    You are seeking a man that matches the way you see Jesus. A BFF that meets every emotional need, never tells you you are wrong, and helps you explain your choices using a form of Christianese and pop psychology. But that is all wrong. Were you to marry a man who really is Christ’s follower, you would soon hate the man, you would say he was an emotionally abusive man, and no amount of sacrifice in work, in protection, etc. would make you love him because your emotions have such primacy.

    Your list is what divorce is made of.

    Please change, for his and your sake. Or….do not marry


  3. and this is why I avoid “christian” women like the plague. the only reason they join a church at age 30 is so that they can dupe some idiot beta male into being the financial provider husband.


  4. I think it helpful to compare this “Waiting” blog (sure doesn’t appear that she “waited” to me) with another blog that I found recently:



  5. It doesn’t appear that she has allowed ping backs. I hope she comes here and reads this. You did an excellent job.

    Michelle, if you do come here and read this, if you really wish to find a man whom you can love, one whom you will not struggle to respect, you should change to the tone of your letters to that of which you have to offer him. Marriage has very little to do with you and what you want. Once you marry, it is now about him and the two of you together. What do you have to offer a man and the sacred union of marriage?


  6. I just had to reply to her list. This is what I blogged back at Michelle:


    Are you looking for a husband or a grunt to worship you. You say you are a Christian, but you sound like a narcisist. We are to worship Jesus Christ, not wives. Marriage is a giving deal, not a purely getting deal. You sound immature, inexperienced, overly romantic, and completely out of touch with your professed faith. Please take this well intentioned rebuke in the manner it is meant. May the Holy Spirit convict you to a real life frame in accordance with worship of our Creator and not yourself.

    I hope she can see my intent and learn. As she has faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit will convict her. I hope she is responsive.


  7. Sadly, many people only allow comments on their blog of what they want to hear nowadays.


  8. I cannot get back to Michelle’s blog. When I attempt I get a message that the blog is private and I can request access. I presume the message I left her prompted her to privatize her blog.


  9. Hey Ballista,

    Is it possible to leave up the 30-point checklist that she had? Her blog is locked, I’m just curious as to what her requirements are for her future husband. This is ridiculous for her to shell up because of a healthy rebuke. This is the reason why I completely gave up on even looking for a “Christian” woman. They’re not looking for Christian men..they’re looking for a thug who says “Jesus” enough times to make them feel like he is moral, but is enough of a damn criminal for her to get her jollies in a rocker. I bet in her entire list of requirements..there is not a SINGLE thing that even remotely relates to the Fruits of the Spirit…which is quite typical because men of such quality are considered “Beta”. It’s true, the meek will indeed truly inherit the Earth. Only a dysfunctional, Devil-worshiping dumb-ass (pardon the French) would want to look for the same pathological qualities that are inherent in criminals and the mentally-ill. She’s probably already signed up for the Carousel in her heart and just wants to look “godly” to cover her bases.


  10. It doesn’t appear that she has allowed ping backs. I hope she comes here and reads this. You did an excellent job.

    I’m sure the 219 clickthroughs her blog has received from here let her know *something* was up. Whether she took what was written here to heart or not is another story. With blogs, it’s hard to know completely what baggage has come along with something.

    I cannot get back to Michelle’s blog. When I attempt I get a message that the blog is private and I can request access. I presume the message I left her prompted her to privatize her blog.

    This has also gone a bit viral (2 sites I’m aware of). It’s hard to know how many respectful Christian comments she received and how many disrespectful comments she’s received from complete asinine jerks, too. Or if she privatized her blog because of this blog post. It’s hard to tell, but all I know to do is pray for her and hope her heart is well out of whatever happened. I should note that I tried to be as loving and merciful as possible (and not vengeful). In that sense, I should point out that three women and one man have “liked” this post, so I would most certainly hope there wasn’t hate here. None was intended. In fact, I pray the outcome be that she change her path so she doesn’t have to be writing Love Letter #1253.

    The main reason I wrote the post was that it’s generally applicable, not just to Michelle, but a host of other Christian women who are out there making the same mistakes she is for whatever reason.

    Is it possible to leave up the 30-point checklist that she had?

    The list was given specific direct commentary here, where you will find it reproduced.


  11. I just read that list…OMG. Good lord! Is she serious?! That’s some real narcissistic dysfunction there. Oh man, Ballista… you had to have such an immeasurable amount of grace to hold back some major chunks in responding to her in such a candid and forthcomingly loving manner. Good grief! I bet this is the thought process in almost EVERY Christian woman out there. How does a man even measure to that?! Like I said..no mention of the Fruits of the Spirit…half of them were all “me, me, me”.


  12. Wow, is that really the same list as the one on her blog? Looks so much worse reading it a second time.

    This post needs to be addressed to most “Christian” girls. There is nothing unique about Michelle’s mentality, which is actually quite sad.


  13. I’m still new to blogging. I hope I did not screw up by sending her that message on her blog. I reread what I wrote her and although it seems “strong”, I agree with what I said.


  14. “I just read that list…OMG. Good lord! Is she serious?! ”

    Women do this all the time – make up non-sense lists, but when they are attracted to you, all of that stuff goes out the window. All women in college have their “list” and I used to enjoy going down it when I was seeing a girl ripping it to shreds with a red pen.

    Nope – don’t do that. This isn’t me… Are you serious? Usually, I met none of their criteria, yet every night they were in my bed. Shows how much “weight” to put in a woman’s list – sure they will use it against you if they don’t know you and aren’t attracted to you, but when their juices are flowing, they don’t worry about their “list”.


  15. Ballista74
    You wrote, “This has also gone a bit viral (2 sites I’m aware of). It’s hard to know how many respectful Christian comments she received and how many disrespectful comments she’s received from complete asinine jerks, too.”

    I hope my message is not being considered as such. I didn’t intend to be disrespectful or sound like an assinie jerk. If yes, then I apologize.


  16. To be fair how narcissistic and delusional about our requirements for a prospective mate at 20 yrs old. I reread some of my journals from that time period recently and was shocked at how naive (and patently stupid) I was. I probably wouldn’t have reacted very well to advice from my currently 12 years older self. Let’s hope Michele does some maturing.


  17. As much as I am sure it stings to read the rebuttals from some men who have offered them (it always stings at first), hopefully she’ll re-examine her approach to the subjects of faith, love and marriage.


  18. I didn’t intend to be disrespectful or sound like an assinie jerk. If yes, then I apologize.

    I didn’t think what you wrote was out of bounds.

    I reread some of my journals from that time period recently and was shocked at how naive (and patently stupid) I was.

    Yet if you read the comments on the other post I linked to, you find women like that follow through into marriage and frivorce with such attitudes. Not everyone wakes up to see how naive and stupid they were at 20.

    Yes, hopefully she won’t double-down and play the victim card out of what she saw but will seriously re-examine herself when it comes to her concepts of faith, love, and marriage.


  19. Just Saying,

    If that is the case, then why would a man honor and respect a woman’s word, if even she does not hold others to the same level of standards on an equal basis. What sort of insanity and instability would a man invite if he were to trust her even with the most remote of responsibilities or entrust her with his secrets or his future? If attraction supersedes any sense of morality or honor, than one cannot, in good faith, trust that person, period. The goal then doesn’t become to get her “juices going” or to “find the right one” it’s to hold steady to our own honor and to keep it from becoming corrupted by their wanton petulance and childishly pedantic obsession with her “juices”. And no, for those who will almost gut-instinctually, want to say NAWALT. Go shove your NAWALT down a gopher hole.


  20. And no, for those who will almost gut-instinctually, want to say NAWALT. Go shove your NAWALT down a gopher hole.

    All women are like that CV, but it can be overcome same as any sinful tendency can be overcome.


  21. “All women are like that CV, but it can be overcome same as any sinful tendency can be overcome”

    Looking at the scoreboard..it ain’t looking too good for your side, Elspeth. Through my taxes and my complicit agreement in being unable to stand up against feminist governance, I have participated in the rise of a nation of bastards and criminals. The flood of single mother’s on the market doesn’t bode too well with the “sinful tendencies being overcome”. You can’t pull the wool over young men’s eyes anymore. Frankly, this is becoming pathetic because all this Game talk is nothing more than patching a Band-Aid on a festering mortal wound. I don’t wear second-hand clothes, I don’t eat regurgitated food, so I sure as hell am not going to “man up and marry” a second-hand woman with more mileage than my dad’s old ’92 Chevy. Frank’s assessment was correct…450,000 SCRIPTURALLY eligible women out of 300 million is a VERY bleak picture. I’m not holding my breath for the vast majority of you to sincerely overcome your sinful tendencies. Interesting how when Frank even mentioned one or two SCRIPTURAL requirements for his future wife, he was thrown all kinds of foul bile and excrement into his face for being a chauvinistic pig, but we’re all to believe that the Daisy Cakes that put up that very long “me, me, me” centered bullet list can “overcome her tendencies?” Jeez, I don’t know why they say that we have an energy crisis because at the rate all of your rationalization hamsters are spinning, you could power the city of New York for the next decade!

    Besides your hardly one to talk since none of the men who were believers and following God in your church were good enough so you found someone who was a non-believer and you were unequally yolked. It was by God’s Grace (and you can argue with me until sun up and sun down, but it was God’s mercy and kindness) that he came to Christ and therefore you are in a Christian union. However, you are hardly one to tell young Christian men ANYTHING about dating or relationships as these young men are the same type of young men you spurned away because they were never good enough or should I say “alpha enough”. We’re not here to conform to your world image of what men are supposed to be. You are not Christ and we do not worship and emulate you. To go on and on about your husband’s past and how ruggedly alpha-amazing he was/is is to continue to pound salt into a very fresh and open wound. Most guys won’t say anything or will deny it out of friendly civility or fear of the same retaliation they are used to in church, but inside that is exactly what it is. Please stop patronizing single Christian men. We get enough of that on Sunday mornings. We don’t need anymore online.


  22. Besides your hardly one to talk since none of the men who were believers and following God in your church were good enough so you found someone who was a non-believer and you were unequally yolked.

    Nope, I’m not one to talk. I never said I was pure and innocent in this area. (For the record the young man I mentioned was not from my church). However, I never expected a man to placate me or pedestalize me and that tendency was one of the things that turned me away from that young man.


  23. My final word:

    I agree with you more often than not CV, but I totally get why I bug you and I’m not trying to change your mind about anything. I look at my transgressions as past failures that happened 20 years ago, but that they were sinful transgressions has never been something I’ve disputed.

    The fact that we are happily marriage is indeed a gracious gift that we have received and not due to any goodness on our part. We know that too. What I have considered the comments of a wife who admires her husband can clearly be interpreted as something else so I appreciate seeing what it sounds like from another side.

    Peace to you.


  24. “What I have considered the comments of a wife who admires her husband can be clearly be interpreted as something else so I appreciate seeing what it sounds like from another side”

    So does this mean we won’t have to sit through another tale of “Alpha McHusband’s Grand Adventures”? Hmmm, my Rationalization Hamster meter is in the red on this one. I have faith, but we’ll have to let time tell if you actually were to find the wisdom not to further add insult to injury with these nostalgic stroll through memory lane. You don’t necessarily bug me because of your background, you bug me because of the fact that you continue to dish out advice to young Christian men and dialogue with them as if you know better than them because you happen to be married. I happen to be employed without a single period of unemployment, but I am hardly the one to dish out advice on career and employment. I couldn’t give a damn about the state of your marriage cause that is your business. But when you entire the dialogue with single Christian men, then it does become my concern. Feeding them fantasies of a submissive wife with a sandwich and a smile is no different then Vegas feeding them fantasies of making it big and striking it rich. It is deceitful in the highest order. And then to say that the attraction-high sin can be overcome, as if to say that men should charge ahead with marriage on such a tiny sliver of hope is pretty well into the pathetic territory.


  25. I make no promises about what I will or won’t say on my own blog (cause it’s my blog), but I will use much more care and thought going forward about what I say on others.


  26. No wonder apostle Paul talked about not suffering a woman to teach in the church. Far more wisdom in that thought and so very applicable today. Too bad it didn’t mention the manosphere. I’m not holding my breath on waiting and hoping for Golden Silence from the Silver Tongue of Elspeth, but there might be hope. We’ll see.


  27. I’m not holding my breath on waiting and hoping for Golden Silence from the Silver Tongue of Elspeth,

    LOL, I kind of like that. I’ll start right now. It’s been real CV. I admire your faith and resolve.

    Take care.


  28. Good riddance. Ballista, that will $59.99. Now that’s a Friends and Family rate for the Proper Disposal of Rationalization Hamster Troll. If Elspeth starts up with her crap again, call the 1-800 number on the receipt and we’ll be out to fumigate your blog once more from her bile.


  29. “20. treat me like a princess (and treat our daughters like princesses) ”

    Feminine Imperative anyone?

    What if she had a son? No one says “treat him like a prince” because everyone knows it’s ridiculous.


  30. What if she had a son? No one says “treat him like a prince” because everyone knows it’s ridiculous.

    Well, today they would treat the boy like a princess too


  31. Observing the tete a tete between CV and Elspeth, it strikes me to offer a gentle reminder to CV that Elspeth, like most of her Christomanosphere sisters, is married to an alpha. Not jut a guy who is “her” alpha, but an alpha. As such, she has little understanding of the plight of the beta male or even the typical Christian man. All she knows of it, candidly, is what she reads here.

    She’s a good egg, though, and I like to hear what she has to say.


  32. Oh so now you want to go Round 2 here? Cause I’m ready. I’m sick and tired of men being relegated to some mule status because they can’t say a few jokes or smile or show some archaic form of machismo. Take your labels somewhere else, pal. There is only ONE thing I have pride in…JESUS CHRIST and the salvation through His blood. My life isn’t my own anymore, therefore any faults that you seem to relegate to me or any other young man who you seem to consider in some kind of “beta male plight” is a failure in yourself to recognize their inherent worth in Christ..that’s a problem that you need to take up with God. In God’s eyes ALL are sinners and when we stand naked before Him, only Christ will be there to intercede on our behalf before the Fires of Damnation. All this alpha and beta nonsense is trivial BS in light of ETERNITY.

    As for the she doesn’t know about the so-called “plight of the beta male”..ignorance is no excuse. It’s no excuse in terms of law, and it certainly isn’t any excuse in front of God for those who stand before Him and claim that they were ignorant of His existence. Therefore I offer the same regards here. Both you and her are in a forum where young Christian men who have been trivialized and nearly dehumanized to the point that not only have they been rejected as godly companions, but their very humanity has been ignored and rejected. To add salt to that wound by parading around your damn spouses like some piece of meat before half-starved prisoners is downright cold and cruel and I’m calling BOTH of you out on it. You mention game quite a bit, but where the hell does God fit into your scenario. You seem to want to relegate Him as some secondary thought or an after-thought. As much as you want to fit everyone into your twisted beta-alpha binaries, God doesn’t give a damn a single bit. Life is not a contest of who has the bigger dick. Grow the hell up and stop white-knighting at every instant.


  33. CV:

    OK. I said it nice the first time. Now, I’ll be just a bit more direct.

    I suggest you stand the hell down and listen for once instead of shooting off your young, immature mouth at the men who run these fora, and our female allies. You have exactly SHIT to tell me about the life of a beta Christian man. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, wrote the book (much of which resides at Dalrock, SSM, this blog, Badger, Private Man and Haley’s Halo). I’ve forgotten more about beta Christian life than you’ll EVER know. I’ve forgotten more about being an incel, living the “good Christian life” and being “obedient” and nuclear rejections and watching EAPs fuck Alpha McGorgeous than you’ll ever see, brother. And I thank God for that, because hopefully your journey through this Shadow of Death will be more truncated than mine.

    I’m calling you out on your constant denigration of marriage. I’m calling you out on going around and bitching, whining and complaining, and standing there bleeding, yelping “I’M BLEEDING!!! I’M IN PAIN!!! DON’T YOU CARE!!!!” Fuck yes we care about it. We not only care, we know about it, we’ve lived where you are, we’ve been through the pain, and most of us are still in it. The difference between you and me is that I’m actually DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, while you stand there hemorrhaging all over anyone who will look at you or listen. Not only that you take to task anyone who will engage you even a little.

    You put on your internet tough guy asshole-full-of-rage, but inside you’re a hurting, lonely man. That’s not shaming language. It’s the truth. I know that because I was you and still am to some extent. You’re here because you are in pain and you want it to stop. But instead of DOING something to get it to stop you attack those who might have something useful to say. The fact that the person with something useful to say is a woman doesn’t mean it’ s not useful.

    You grow up. Stop expecting everyone around here to put salve on your wounds. We’ve got the first aid kit, the bandaids and the gauze. Since you’re the one who knows where the lacerations are, YOU put them on yourself. If you calm down a little, maybe Ballista and Elspeth and I will try to help.


  34. By the way, for God’s sake, when you’re walking through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, KEEP GOING. Stop standing there in the hot sun bitching about “I’M BLEEDING!!! I’M IN PAIN!!!”

    I’ve seen worse cases than you. They weren’t as loud, but they were worse.


  35. Bring it CV. Whatever you got, I’ve seen it, know it, and lived it.

    You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You have exactly fuck-all to teach me about anything.


  36. You know jack squat about my life, so stop projecting your nonsense onto others. You are not me, so stop trying to fit me into your little box, you halfwit. You’re the one putting people in boxes like “alpha” and “beta” instead of looking at other alternatives. INCEL my ass. I’ve accepted where I stand in that regard but I’m not willing to stand around while you keep selling your false hope garbage to other men so that they too go through same “Valley of Death”. Where in the hell did I say anything about my life? I was trying to fight for other men to be recognized and get the help they need from the church or to band together as a community of believers to support eac, including setting up our own home fellowship. The only thing you can do is talk about a bunch of Game BS, because you want all men to fit into your little nice picture with their own piece of ass on tap. And don’t include Ballista into your sick twisted and VERY limited paradigm. You need others’ reassurance to make sure that your worldview is accurate? Don’t project your damn insecurity on me, CAUSE YOU DON’T KNOW SQUAT about my life. Unlike you, I’ve managed to keep my dick in my pants, but I have had loved ones who gone through the meat grinder cause no one was around to reassure them that it was okay to stand alone as long as they had Christ. I fight on THEIR behalf, and unlike you, I have actually made grounds, including being in contact with one pastor who wants to hear more about a ministry specifically guided towards single celibate men. So go and shove your Game Final Solution right up your ass, you white-knighting patronizing jackass.


  37. If you think I’m letting you have the last word in this debate, you’ve got something else coming, pal. You have exactly diddly squat to teach me anything as well. A grown man who believes in bloody Jedi mind tricking his way into someone’s pant..now that’s cute and sadly pathetic at the same time.


  38. Oh, and a couple of final thoughts, CV:

    1. I didn’t come here looking for “round 2”. You’re the one who’s going around the interwebz with spittle dripping from your lips, fists flying across your keyboard, and bleeding from multiple open wounds, demanding that someone DO SOMETHING about how bad you hurt.

    2. If you want some help, one way to get it might be to WATCH, LISTEN and LEARN from the older men and “study, to show yourself approved; rightly dividing the word of truth”. Kind of like St. Paul instructed his spiritual son Timothy. You might try that, instead of getting out your double barreled shotguns every time someone says a little something you don’t like.


  39. Ballista, I’m done on this thread. I won’t derail it further. I just want you to know CV decided to come in here and take a swing at me, so I swung back. I’m done and won’t say anything further.


  40. I’m to gain knowledge from men that have actual wisdom, not retards who keep going on about how they bang their wife every night and relegating everyone into your patented “beta and alpha” binaries. “Watch, listen, and learn from the older men”…hahahahaah. Okay this coming from a guy who has been scripted to say “If I had relied on Scripture, my marriage would have probably failed….If you think a GODLY, CHRISTIAN woman is going to stay married without being attracted to you, you’re wrong”…I’m supposed to seek spiritual wisdom from YOU?! Hahhaah, oh man, that’s a riot. In a single statement you basically disqualified God’s Word when it comes to your marriage and on the other hand you basically disqualified your own understanding of what it means to be godly and Christian by saying that a woman who has those qualities would leave her husband, whom she is bonded to in flesh and spirit through a covenant with the Almighty, because he’s not being the attractive Alpha jerk. Yeah, well the Bible also talks about being careful not to fall into the “blind leading the blind”.

    And for all the vim and vigor that you keep projecting about how awesome of a sex life you have, you seem to want to validate your own sex life. You claim that I’m in pain and hemorrhaging without a shred of any type of scientific or psychological discretion, yet the same could be said about your “little dick complex” when needing to validate your own sex life by parading it around at SSM’s, and further prattling on about how everyone either is an “alpha” or “beta”.

    Funny how I’m supposed to take spiritual advice from a guy who hardly even mentions God or Scripture and more often quotes avowed atheists like A-Hole Kay. At least guys like Lyn87 have earned me lending my ears to what they have to say because he actually backs his stuff up, unlike you.


  41. Ballista, now that’s TWO trolls that have been removed. Now that’s an early Fourth of July discount when it comes to Game Rationalization Hamster removal cause they require extra fumigation. Thanks for allowing this debate and discourse.


  42. Thought you said you were done on this thread. Guess you’re word doesn’t mean much either. Can’t say I’m surprised.


  43. CV, you are impetuous. That is not to speak into the debate contents or context, but just a straight fact. I can be impetuous, and when I was younger I was indeed impetuous. I’d go so far as defend being impetuous under certain circumstances. But as a default mode it is really bad.


  44. My list … if Michelle wants a biblical man and is worthy of same she will ingest the
    following comments and answer in the positive to each

    1. have a strong relationship with Christ – You must look up to *me* as GOD “the husband is the head of the wife” no
    bypassing me for what the pastor says, your mother says, Vicki the divorced woman
    neighbor says, I am the boss and if I make a mistake it’s between me and GOD and
    you will follow my lead regardless.

    2. be a good spiritual leader for me and our family – See number one. If you won’t fulfill number one then number 2 is impossible.

    3. put me second in your life after God – YOU do not think about this – you listen to me. Unless I require you to swear an oath
    saying Jesus is not the son of the GOD I lead the family and you follow. Yes you can
    have an opinion but ultimately if you do not trust me to do this you are not worthy of

    4. have a desire to protect me and take care of me – This is natural and innate FOR A WORTHY WOMAN it is only a problem today
    SHOULD BE LEFT TO FALL INTO MISERY. If I have no desire to protect you
    it means you have become stiff necked and insist on following your own way not mine,
    have decided that YOU should be the head of the relationship and will use whatever
    justifications you can rationalize to accomplish this and rest assured the devil will provide
    you with any number of “experts” many of whom are pastors that will agree with you.

    5. cherish me and respect me – You will be cherished and respected provided you are worthy of both (see 1-4) you will
    not demand to act in a reprehensible fashion and at the same time be respected (see
    any woman whose been to Vegas, went wild, then demands respect). If you act
    respectable you will be respected. If you act like a spoiled child whose primary motivation
    is to have her whim catered too at all costs then you will not be cherished or respected
    anymore than GOD cherished or respected Israel when they engaged in fornication
    and went after other gods.

    6. not pressure me for sex before marriage – Are *YOU* a virgin? Perhaps the most important question on this list. Are you? Really?
    And if you are not you can forget EVERY OTHER *CUSSWORD* THING ON YOUR
    LIST as you’ve shown that you are NOT a Christian, NOT wife material, and NOT
    worthy of being anything other than a weekend amusement at best. As a man I am
    expected to work in my youth to make myself able to produce to support you. I am
    to get an education, stay out of prison, and deny myself all sorts of things to prepare
    myself to support a wife. If I accidently stole a car when I was 19 and now I have a
    felony rap that will prohibit me from most well paying jobs *FOREVER* that counts
    strongly against my worth being a mate. You would mercilessly judge me for this and
    everyone would support you. Your only job was to keep your legs closed until I was
    able to support you and if you can’t do that you will have told me that I am wasting
    my time as your worth as a woman is now 1/10th as much as it was. You will not judge
    a man who works at a gas station and didn’t think about his future as favorably as one
    who went to college and has a professional career. GOD told Joseph to not be afraid
    to mary the virgin Mary not because it was all cuddles and nice but because SHE WAS
    STILL A VIRGIN. GOD did NOT tell Joseph to man up and marry that slut. Jesus
    did not say that GOD was WRONG for men rejecting non-virgins and yet today its
    the pastors who tell us we should do this and the message is straight from the devil.
    You want a good professional man to work for the rest of his life to support you? We
    want an exclusive on your body and not to be the silver medal (at best) leftovers. If
    you’ve been handing it out for free before – why the hell should we pay full price for it
    now? You are a virgin? We can talk… You aren’t? Had a little “oopsie” did you but it
    really didn’t mean much and even though it was only 2 (actually 5 but I am not going
    to count those other three because you know… reasons…) then you are only good for
    being a whore or a mistress. Get a cat.

    7. be very chivalrous and have respect for all women – being chivalrous requires that a
    man be given power in the first place (see 1-3). If you give me the power I am due over
    you, I can be chivalrous. As for respecting all woman ABSOLUTELY NOT. Most
    woman today are reprehensible and in biblical times would be stoned. GOD himself did
    not say this was evil. Forgiveness is not equal to condoning the sins of harlots who
    are genuninely penitent. What respect does GOD grant the whore of babylon? Would
    you have your husband grant respect to such an evil creature? Do you want our
    daughters to be thought of as such by the LORD GOD while I bend over backwards
    to label good as evil just to appease my wife who should be following my lead rather
    than being in full rebellion? Respect is earned through good character and hard work
    which most women of this age are absolutely rebelling against.

    8. be able to be a good father to our children – This means you teaching and reinforcing
    that I am the head of the house. It is not for you to label me as a good or a bad father
    anymore than it is for me to label GOD as such. If you acknowledge and trust that I
    am the head of the house then this question is irrelevant – if you can’t then your list
    is self serving, self defeating, unbiblical, and futile as no man born of woman will ever
    be able to satisfy it as you want a contradiction.

    9. hopefully want to have foster kids and adopt kids, because that’s something I feel

    called to do. – If I decide to do it then yes, if I do not decide to do it then no and GOD
    isn’t calling you to do it as he would not call you to disobey and rebel against your
    husband on such a question. GOD will not call you to sin (disobey your husband) to
    run out and do something you want. There is no sin in not adopting but there IS sin
    in you following your own self in defiance of your husband. Other than me demanding
    you chase after other gods there really isn’t any wiggle room here. You don’t like that?
    Feel called to label your feelings as being godly when they are just your ever changing,
    shifting like the sands feelings? Find a non-biblical man who will cotow to you and then
    you can feel GOD calling you to divorce and rape him in court … you know … because

    10. love me unconditionally – did GOD love Israel unconditionally? Did he call them to
    repentance and then refrain from punishment when they chased after other gods? Did
    he hold back the peoples of foreign lands from invasion forever, loving them
    unconditionally? Hmm… seems you want something unbiblical here. You cannot love
    something that is evil and unloveable unconditionally. Therefore your actions (both
    before and after marriage) will determine you worthiness. Feminism has given women
    the belief that they have some “right” to be loved when not even GOD himself asserts
    this. Yes he can love you AFTER you beg forgiveness of your sin and turn away from
    it but he does NOT pretend that the costs of same will go away nor that you were
    worthy of love before. Love is a gift – it is not something to be demanded as you are
    doing and it shows you have a profound misunderstanding of what love is which is a
    HUGE red flag on your worthiness for a good husband (which you are NOT entitled
    too anymore than you are entitled to love)

    11. be someone I can respect and look up to – be a woman that is worthy of me acting
    respectable. If you present yourself as a party girl who “yeah I was with a few guys – I
    have an ex but it’s over now and that’s in the past” then I am going to treat you as
    they did because you’ve shown me just how you deserve to be treated. “Right… use this
    one for sex then get out of town – she is not worth anything greater than a few lies
    and not even original ones at that. Pity the man that wifes THAT one up… hope he
    likes being number 8 or 14 on her list.”

    12. be someone i just respect more and more as I get to know you more – If you have
    a biblical respect and act the good wife this will be natural. If you do not and want to
    simply compete with the neighbors and “have it all” then no amount of work on my
    part will ever fill this black hole inside you.

    13. not make me feel insecure (especially about our relationship) – being a Christian means
    learning to temper and control your emotions. It does not mean that you won’t have
    negative feelings. You must control yourself it is not for others to do it for you. No man
    can “make you feel… blah” or not make you feel something. YOU must control yourself
    and if you can’t then you will be like the boat without an anchor. You will feel insecure,
    you will feel fear, you will feel negative things and YOU will need to temper those negative
    feelings with faith in GOD that he was right and by obeying him and having faith in
    your husband EVEN WHEN your husband is doing things that you may not like. If you
    do not want this burden then become a nun and have no children or marry a man
    who promises to placate your emotions (as the devil will promise you) and bask in the
    pain and suffering as the promises evaporate in the sun of reality.

    14. not try to tear me down – (see above if this happens) Criticism and correction is
    part of husbands job and is not evil, anymore than when GOD told Israel to shape up.

    15. care when I’m hurt and when I cry – Yes provided that it is genuine pain and not
    manipulation and uncontrolled hysterics that are being done to simply get your way.
    False cries to GOD in the bible had absolutely no worth or value in his eyes.

    16. make me feel loved – be worthy of love and see 13) You must control your emotions.
    If you don’t feel loved that doesn’t mean that you aren’t loved. If you don’t feel loved
    by GOD does that mean he doesn’t love you? Are his moods as ephemeral as yours?
    The man you marry will not be as GOD but he will have different moods and emotions
    and the more worthy you are of love the more love you will feel from him. If you have
    been a harpy, if you had a string of lovers before so he wonders which you are dreaming
    about now, if you constantly tear him down, or talk down about him to your friends he
    will not feel love for you and so you shouldn’t be surprised when he doesn’t make you
    feel love. GOD withdrew from Israel when she proved unworthy of love – your husband
    will do the same.

    17. love me with God’s love – impossible. No other word is needed here. GOD loves
    with complete justice and without sin. Only one being ever can do this and I (and every
    other man) will fall short of this. You ask for the impossible. Any love from a man is
    simply a shadow of the all mighty – that is the fallen nature of things, period, and it is
    not in my or anyone’s power to change it.

    18. work things out with me instead of trying to start fights – there shouldn’t be fights.
    Fights happen when there is a disagreement as to the course of the relationship or events
    around it. If my lead is followed there aren’t fights – discussions yes but fights no. Fights
    stem from rebellion against the head of the house – refrain from this and no fights

    19. love me so much that I can’t even comprehend – see 16 & 17. You as a fallen
    creation are not worthy of this…. yet. In heaven yes, now no. You ask to be married
    to GOD but you will not obey him. You demand the impossible from a normal man
    and will be disappointed.

    20. treat me like a princess (and treat our daughters like princesses) – not biblical. Joseph
    did not treat Mary as such nor did Jesus any other woman. Did GOD require Joseph
    to build a castle for Mary? No… he was happy with a stable. Why is a stable and being
    a humble carpenter good enough for the SON OF GOD but *you* must have royal
    robes and banguets for yourself…. Which spirit – the lord of this Earth or the LORD
    OF HEAVEN do you think this desire comes from? Would you turn down all the
    kingdoms of the Earth and bow down and worship satan if it meant you were a real
    princess? It sounds like not only would you do this YOU DEMAND IT…. hmmm…

    21. know how a man should treat a woman – no… know how a man should treat
    himself. As the two are one flesh this is the model. A man should treat a woman the
    same way as he treats whoever she is married too.

    22. pray with me, read the bible with me, have spiritual conversations with me, and care

    about my soul – ultimately this is my responsibility but you must trust and defer to me
    in it and not try to take control AND YOU WILL WANT TO TRY TO TAKE

    23. be patient – both ways. This is biblical.

    24. not let me forget how much you love me – see 16. Redundant.

    25. have goals in life but not place a big importance on money – not directly your concern
    You are to follow my lead and if you do this you will be provided for. It will likely not be
    candyland and carosels but then again are you to pursue those?

    26. love spending time with me – be worthy of wanting to have time spent on.

    27. hug me all the time and cuddle with me – Don’t make me envision you doing the
    same with other men by being a virgin so I will want to touch you and not be repulsed
    by intrusive thoughts of you laying with other men. And … understand that YES that
    is how men think and NO because women don’t think this way it doesn’t mean men
    are WRONG for thinking this way as GOD himself puts a great deal of emphasis on
    FEMALE virginity.

    28. love listening to me and care about every aspect of my life – show respect to me and
    we’ll listen. Make sure every aspect of your life is directed to caring for us and our
    household and we’ll care.

    29. want me to accomplish my goals – your goals should be to be a biblical wife, to care
    for house, hearth, and home, and raise our children. Other things that are not under
    that umbrella are simple wants and must be pushed aside most of the time just like a man
    must push aside his fleeting lust and wants to take care of you. Your “goals” if they are
    in tandem with mine will be respected but they are not supreme nor should you believe
    that they are. I must radically change my goals to take care of you so too must you.

    30. not have any “red flags” – you mean like being a felon? (see 6 and 27).

    31. put my feelings first – Absolutely not – this is not biblical and your feelings will change
    like the wind and you should no this. No house can be run by feelings.

    32. love me as yourself – this is biblical and in complete contradiction with several other
    points you make (31 for instance).

    33. be the leader in the relationship – this is biblical and in complete contradiction with
    several other points you make.


  45. Hi!

    I’m a newcomer here, and my english is poor (sorry), so I have one question:
    And what about SEX? the Bible teaches us to, if we cannot control ourselves, we MUST marry but, HOW?! and WHAT TO DO, if we CAN’T FIND A DECENT WOMAN to do so?! I can’t leave my life alone, struggle every damn day to stay away, AT LEAST, ONE DAY, without porngraphy! this is not life; it’s DEATH!
    I’m not accusing you: I’m just a desperate man almost 32 years old getting more and more older without a glimpse of hope!…
    I’ve already prayed to die, but I didn’t so… and I can’t kill myself.


  46. Hola Rafael,

    ¡Hay mucha esperanza en Cristo! Sin embargo, hay que tener mucho cuidado con las mujeres cuando está escogiendo una de ellas para ser su esposa. Afortunadamente, el movimiento feminismo no es tan fuerte en Latinoamérica que en Los Estados Unidos todavía. Sin embargo, ¡está creciendo en Latinoamérica también! Tengo un artículo que tradujo al español sobre “Los Diez Mandamientos del Matrimonio Cristiano” si está interesado en ello. Hay que enseñar esto a la mujer que está considerado ser su esposa y estar seguro que ella está completamente de acuerdo con estos mandamientos.


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